Considering the quickly deteriorating situation at ISP and the fact the many of us still have some loayalties to that site and/or occasionally visit, I threw this idea out in one of the threads yesterday for your feedback and I'd like to make it an official poll.

I have read the very intelligent debates put forth by many members there in great detail and can appreciate the frustration levels. These dabates are obvsiouly testing our very understanding of democaracy and freedom of speech, not just as members here or there, but for the admins and mods on both sites and as such, I think this poll itself is a good practice for all of us in democracy and expressing an opinion that will count.

My suggestion is in line with one of Deerouz's latest posts where he draws attention to the fact that it is difficult to respect freedom of expression in political forums where tempers may be running high. He suggests that a resolution for this issue will come through either raising tolerance levels for the language used by the members (which seems quite unlikely at this point) or openly aligning the forum with either a leftist or a rightist membership base.

This is not only a very interesting proposal, but it also goes hand in hand with what I suggested yesterday as a solution for the crisis. It is possible, at least to propose this, for IC to be offered as a "choice" in the ISP main forum page and vice versa (i.e. we will add the ISP main forum page as a sub-forum on IC and they will add the IC main forum page as a sub-forum on ISP). Nothing else needs to change. Our membership and policies will continue in the same manner that they have and so will theirs. But people will now have a choice NOT to leave ISP altogether if they are upset, frustrated, banned, etc. This will also give our members access to the ISP football forum which is quite popular, from within the IC forums.

I think it is a proposal worth considering for members of both forums and I'd like us (IC members) to express our opinions on the matter first and see if this should be suggested to ISP staff, included as a poll, or through any other means. For now, the focus is on IC and how its members feel about this proposal. If there's an overwhelming majority that support the idea, the next challenge would obviously be to put this idea forth to the ISP team and members...

LOL,

Behrou jan, an Old Persian Proverb goes something like this:
Yaro ro be abadi rah nemedadan soragh khaneh kad-khoda ro megereft. :Notooth2::whistle:

What would be gained from your proposal? Have you even discussed this with ISP? Why would they provide a link to site run/visited by people that they banned?:mf_seehearspeak:

I for one, don't want to team up with ISP. It's ok if they provide a link to IC though. :dunno:

Well Hamid jaan, the Politics forum at ISP has been completely locked/removed now, as some of our members predicted (if I'm not mistaken Aram called that right on). Personally, I think it's a great idea for them to still offer that option to their members without the need to take responsibility for the contents of the forum, which could have affected their business dealings with IRIB for streaming - since the content is no longer on their site. Whether they will like this option, would be willing to implement it, etc. is beyond the scope of this poll, but I thought it may be a good idea to at least offer them an option for consideration. Afterall, we all met on ISP and I think we owe them that much, not to be happy with things falling apart there.

I personally have no annimosity with anyone there and as you know was never banned from ISP until we got this forum going. And I consider the whole issue with PM's and my account being blocked water under the bridge. Ultimately, I think this whole situation is a sample of what has happened with all of us - leaving our homes (Iran) because of policies we did not approve of or agree with and going elsewhere. And I think you'd agree that if there was an option for all of us to be involved in Iran's future in some way, we'd all jump on that. Well, the situation with ISP is no different and I think it's a good practice for ALL of us to learn to resolve our issues, let bygones be bygones and work together to make things better, rather than saying we can't make a difference.

Call me an idealistic fool, but I think we can make a difference. Is that not the very first principle of democracy, that one's opinions do count for something? So, instead of making thie whole thing a bad experience for us, a bad experience for ISP, we ALL do have it within us to turn this situation around and prove that things are not as hopeless as some would like us to believe. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was at least worth a question.

Behrou jan, I like your confidence bro. Did you receive a signal (cheshmak) from Pooya?

Come on dude, you know I would not discuss this with anyone outside the forum without discussing it with you guys first. Again, I'm not worried about their reaction or what they think about it. I just think it's good to have a proposal out there at the very least. If not this one, something else. If they don't like it, at least I won't feel bad that I didn't do anything about it. Does that make sense?

It's kind of like you guys voting during the Iranian election. Maybe it didn't count for anything, but at least you know that you tried. And frankly, if this was not the attitude of so many people who felt that doing something was better than doing nothing, Iran would have been exactly the same as it was a year ago - no hope whatsoever. Look, how much you guys (people like you) accomplished with your mere participation. If we don't believe that democracy gives us power, we will never see that power IMHO.

Behrou jan,
Interesting suggestion, but I highly doubt that ISP powers will consider it for various reasons.
One problem I can think of from the top of my head is their sensitivity regarding advertising of external and/or competetive sites. As we are a break away site, a product of their own screwed up policies, they would loath to have any connection to us or even acknowledge our existence.
This site would offer a significant competition to ISP, which is a business, specially now that their politics forum is closed and most of their members are looking for somewhere to hang out.

Secondly, if this merger were to become reality, this place would soon encounter the same problems as ISP. For one thing, you'd have the pleasure of reading GP and REZA's posts. Now I don't mind at all as I can easily ignore them but I can see many members wanting them banned. You would have to make a decision with all the dilemmas that it brings with it.

I think you should not approach ISP with the suggestion of this merger because you will get a flat negative reply and as Iranians say "khodet ro koochik mikoni". Rather wait a few days and witness the surge of new members who come here on their own accord now that ISP have closed their politics forum.

Dude, I know you didn't receive any signal. That was just a joke.
I don't have anything against ISP and our friends on the site. And I didn't know about ISP politics forum going away (if they have closed it for good or for maintenance).
But I was under impression that they see us as competitors and that is why they banned all of us for "advertising" on ISP. That is why I said I like your confidence and that confidence is probably because of your great business mind and if ISP admin look at your proposal with an open mind, they should take it.

Behrou jan,
Interesting suggestion, but I highly doubt that ISP powers will consider it for various reasons.
One problem I can think of from the top of my head is their sensitivity regarding advertising of external and/or competetive sites. As we are a break away site, a product of their own screwed up policies, they would loath to have any connection to us or even acknowledge our existence.
This site would offer a significant competition to ISP, which is a business, specially now that their politics forum is closed and most of their members are looking for somewhere to hang out.

Secondly, if this merger were to become reality, this place would soon encounter the same problems as ISP. For one thing, you'd have the pleasure of reading GP and REZA's posts. Now I don't mind at all as I can easily ignore them but I can see many members wanting them banned. You would have to make a decision with all the dilemmas that it brings with it.

I think you should not approach ISP with the suggestion of this merger because you will get a flat negative reply and as Iranians say "khodet ro koochik mikoni". Rather wait a few days and witness the surge of new members who come here on their own accord now that ISP have closed their politics forum.

Behrooz jaan,

I'm going to adress your concerns one by one:

On the first issue, I'm a firm believer in the inherent goodness in mankind. Let's be fair, most of the ISP team is in their 20's. I myself was as stubborn as you could get when I was in my 20's. It's not like I don't understand some of the decisions they make, or that I have not made similar decisions when I was younger. I may not agree with them, because of my experiences and where those stubborn decisions lead, but I do understand them. This is chance for us, the older crowd, to possibly provide some quidance and options to our younger friends, however misguided or stubborn they may seem at the moment. This is a chance for them to redeem themselves and not let the labours of theur hard work simply going to waste. Again, whether they're willing to make that decision or not is not the subject of this particular poll. I just want to find out if WE find it beneficial to make such a proposal.

On the second issue, this is NOT a merger. Nothing will change in the way that either sites are run. We're simply going to provide a link to their forums and they will do the same in return. Both sites/forum will remin on their respective servers and will run exactly as they've been running up to this point. I think the collective decision from the start on IC was an overwhelming NO to this site being a commercial site. As such, we do not need to challenge or even be perceived as a threat for ISP commercially. We're simply going to be a smaller independant community linked to the ISP community with its own set of practices.

As far as GP, REZA or the likes, we have faced this question right from the start. We're all picking on their policies in dealing with these people, but what right do we have to do so, if we ourselves can not deal with the likes of REZA or GP? Ultimately, these characters would have made their way to the forum one way or another. There has been a lot of suggestions on how to deal with them both here and on ISP. This is our chance, as a collective, to implement some of these suggestions, rather than walking away from the challenge altogether IMHO.

Berou jan I see your point about GP and REZA and the likes and I agree totally.

But on the merger I can't see how it makes any sense. The reason simply is that the two sites already mirror each other in many respects, just look at the identical threads in all the different forums. One of the two sites eventually will have to give way because you can't have members who post here and then the exact same thing on ISP. There would be no point.

Maybe I am missing something.

You're right Behrooz jaan and I may be over-simplyfying things a little bit. Again, the word "merger" here is incorrect in every sense of the word, but if this "arrangement" was to be approved by both sites, the "natural" evolution of the relationship would be that the mirror forums would eventually be taken out either by us or by them, or simply noy used. For example, the ISP football forum is better than IC's, naturally most users would gravitate to that particular forum, much the same way they are doing now. It would just be easier to access it right from here. Similarly, the users may find IC's policies on the Politics forum more desirable or that forum may remain locked on ISP. In that instance, they can easily access the IC politics forum from within ISP.

Basically, that leaves 2 forums, the General Sports one and the fun forum. Again, this can be done through netural evolution and letting users decide, or ISP can simply say, look we're a sports site and we like to keep the sports forums and let our members (i.e. IC) run the politics and fun forum as they see fit. Of course, we have talked about rotating moderation and all that from the beginning and a lot of ISP current members have asked for that.

I like to reemphasize again that this proposal is not for a merger and users would have to have accounts at both places as they do now.

Behrou

It is very hard question to answer posthaste.

I do recall a period of time that several web sites and football discussion boards merged into then ISN board and called it a unity action ( probably just before 98 WC). It worked well for its purpose. So historically there has been a precedence.

But I like what artie said. We can't look for kadkhoda's house when we are not welcome in the village.

Despite what soroosh aziz claimed in the other thread, I still maintain that ISP's managment and admins ,and for bus. reasons, would like to have less of political profile. If now days they ban people under excuse of protection of freedom of speech, in early days they were deleting posts that were considered too radical. In fact that attitude, along with other things helped me realize that I was not wanted there.

With that as background, what would be ISP's motive to merge with IC?
One can argue that if they don't want political forum , to sort of sub-lease or direct their political forum traffic to IC, which will constitute a partnership and not a merger.
Again, why would ISP do that? They do realize that eventually they will lose much of their traffic , as political forum attaracts more of a traffic , the type that actually can be considered worth marketing to. Not just youngsters types of sports forum.

If ISP is indeed pre occupied with liabilities of political forum, they have a hard and quick decision to make. Their sports forum is also going down the hill. When your staff writer and member of news team keeps bashing ( and in arude sarcastic way) anything related to Iranian football, people start losing respect .

In fact, it is very sad and hard for me to see what is happening to ISP. I saw it a bit earlier than most of you guys,about 3-4 years ago , but it took polarization of political spectrum for the realities to resurface.

In short and conclude this incoherent response, I say I'm all for unity ,but IC is not on the driving seat and it is to best interest of community to start rebuilding and reforming that community. Lets focus on that. ISP's community was result of hard labor and sacrifice of so many that made it happen. It is a 10+years heritage. It is being wasted , over lajbazi and ego of some and naivite of couple of others.Lets focus on minimizing the damage that ISP's policies may inflict on this community.

Question of GP and REZA is a different magholeh.They should be locked out of any forums that they intend to harm and distrup.But if it is proven that the intent is not of harm, they are entitled to express their backwarded opinions.

http://www.tailgatingideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/misa_campo_003.jpg

Sweet Jesus Bardya joon, I didn't even know you were capable of being this mad! Mental note to self, don't make fun of the Canadiens! ;)

------------------------------

On the topic and looking at the responses, I think it's safe to say without many more votes, that this was a bad idea. But let me just say that it was neither my first bad idea, nor will it be the last!!! :whistle:

I'm sorry for the multiple F bombs that I dropped in my previous. I just had to say what was on my mind.


behrou jan, knowing that you live in leafs territory, theres nothing you can say about the canadiens that would upset me. :Notooth2:

I'm sorry for the multiple F bombs that I dropped in my previous. I just had to say what was on my mind.

behrou jan, knowing that you live in leafs territory, theres nothing you can say about the canadiens that would upset me. :Notooth2:

LOL. Yeah just take every opportunity to kick the already down Leaf fans! ;) Seriously though, I haven't watched those losers since the 96 play-off's - they just suck and after Wendel left ;) I thought there would be less of that, but apparently not!!! :piss:

Nice job Bardia jan :)

Nice job Bardia jan :)

Nice job indeed!! What was this poll about again? ;)

LOL sorry bout that. :o

I for one am all for the Canadiens........ooops, i mean the merger.

Bi-Honar and others
I don't know the details of what is going on - but I think the merger is a good idea. I am not sure if ISP would do it though.

Also please check my website www.persiaunited.com
You will be more than welcome to add the forum page there. InMotion is my host and they have been pretty good.

Nice site Masoud jaan. Of course it would be great if you could add it there. I didn't see a "forums" section on your site and it would definitely be a nice option for people visiting to be able to discuss issues. IC is everyone's site. :)

Masoud jan, there are no Mergers planed. LOL

Ba-Honar just throw the idea on the table......by the way I think its a great idea to have our forum linked in your site. Let us talk about this first and we'll get back with you soon.

What happened to your forum? Masoud jan, I see you still have that presentation on top the page. I remember years ago when you posted it in ISP many people including myself were not happy with your presentation (page 18 I think) having a picture of twin towers during the impact in a presentation about Iran!!!!!???????

That is totally irrelivent and as an Iranian actually I am quite offended by what ever it is you are trying to get accross!

I would encourage you to revise that presentation, specially that you are advocating the "young and non Iranians" see it.

Artie and BH
Attaching your site there is not a big deal can be done in 5 minutes.
Does that save you any $ ?

As for the forum there - I was just trying to do the same thing you did here, however I attracted a lot of IRI agents who posed as Monarchists and Socialists - trust me they are outr there. Some of them are leftists who have been jailed by IRI - freed with conditions to be IRI Rats.

As for the presentation - Arti,
I made that just after 911 - trying to tell the world Iranians are people of peace and would not fly planes full of innocent people into buildings. I am not sure I understand the part that offends you - but I can change it easy.

As for the presentation - Arti,
I made that just after 911 - trying to tell the world Iranians are people of peace and would not fly planes full of innocent people into buildings. I am not sure I understand the part that offends you - but I can change it easy.


Massoud jan, the presentation is about Iran and how peaceful we are, then why is there a picture of that horific incident there? Don't you think someone (not necessarily Iranian) will somehow associate that to Iran? I think that single slide kind of spoils the whole presentation, at least for me.

IMHO, keeping that slide does not do us justice. :chekerim:

Ma bishtar - :chekerim:
I see your point - especialy now after so many years.
I got to add a sentence.
But you do realize you are suggesting changes to a masterpiece - lol

There are more than a few very interesting and knowledgable iranians posting at ISP and quite a few more stick around there for their football forum.

Moderators whom are working HAND IN HAND with bassidjis and hezbollahis are slowly making the political forum a small copy of an Islamic Republic of Iran.

It would be, IMHO, a waste of all your efforts and hard work that were put in this forum to merge with those assholes again.

I post there, so why do I not practice what i preach?
Now, I need to be ever present there (i get banned every three months and use a fake IP to re register and just be up GP and R_E_Z_A 's nose till they ban me again), but as far as healthy discussions goes the place is a toilet.

After talking with Artie - and as per his suggestion,
I have put the IC forum on my website too.
http://www.persiaunited.com

After talking with Artie - and as per his suggestion,
I have put the IC forum on my website too.
http://www.persiaunited.com

Good move masoud jan. Let's hope we get more new members here.

Do you know how many people visit your pages?

about 50/day.
I have not advertised it at all.

I don't think it's a bad idea, but I am fairly sure it won't happen. There is a divide between this forum and ISP whether we like it or not. Frankly, were it not for it's football forum and a few members there I would no longer visit over there. I used to like everything about that site and now there's very few things I like there.

Even though I voted for "Need more time" I agree with Kaz.
Both sites follow different rules and none will bend for the others. I believe we just leave it the way it is.

about 50/day.
I have not advertised it at all.
Masoud jAn,
Appreciate your comradery for IC link in your site.
I'm not trying to split hair here but the link says "Iran Corner Forum" instead of Iranian Corner, you might want to take look at that. Many Thanx.

Ba dorood:

Independence of each forum is a very vital element in my view.

My vote is not to join.

Thanx Motori Jaan - I fixed it.