I have had this on my mind for a while and wanted to get your inputs on it as well. The markets after their dramatic crash have been on a rise for about a year now and moving strong. I wanted to see what type of investments you guys make and if you have any suggestions or tips on stocks. This is just for a starter as we can provide more info and get into the details of our portfolios and what they carry. I personally have 4 types of different accounts of which 3 are retirement accounts and one is a personal one. I am a firm believer of buying and holding for long periods of time even though this is very risky especially with stocks as they move on a certain range that can go up and down. This is obviously not the case with some strong ones such as Google or Apple as they have been on the up and Apple even much stronger than when they had their highs some year or year and half ago.

Please share your thoughts

Good thread Pooya jaan, as I started another one on mortgage rates and it did not create much interest. Not sure why, unless everyone here has paid off their mortgages! ;)

In any event, I lost a lot of money in the market after the 2000 crash and vowed to stay out of it forever. But with interest rates around 0% and GIC's at all time lows, it really doesn't make sense to leave money in the bank particularly when inflation is around 2.5%! So, I decided to buy in last year when Dow hit the 6500 mark (as I had predicted on ISP), but the wife said no!!! :(

A couple of months ago, I finally couldn't resist and dumped what little money I had in a retirement account into ETF's. I've been quite impressed with those, because they're pre-made portfolios and don't need daily attention. Also, it is highly unlikely that an ETF following the TSX index would crash and never recover - if that happens, we obvioulsy have bigger problems. At least that's my new investment philosophy and I'm going to stick with it for the next few months and see what happens. These are currently the ETF's that I have in my portfolio (exchange:ticker symbol)

TSX: XDV, approx. 37% (dividend fund tied mostly to the Canadian finanicial sector)
TSX: XIC, approx. 31% (tied to the TSX index).
TSX: ZHY, approx. 12% (tied to high yield US corporate bonds).
AMEX: VGK, approx. 19% (tied to large and mid cap Euro companies).

I originally had a large chunk of my portfolio in a Canada federal government bond ETF, thinking it was the safest one, but it was performing miserably, so I sold them all and put it in the first 3 on the above list. Despite that set back, the portfolio's annualized return so far is 15%.

What do you think?

Bi Honar jaan I know how you feel about buying Dow at the low and you did not. I think the same about Bank of America and Apple which hit $260 today and I could of bought it at $80 last year. It sucks but no one can predit the future and what I think is up and up in the long term. The funds that you have are at not close to their highs which tells me there are still potential there and overall when looking at the markets historically they will go up if you hold to certain conservative funds over the long term. For that I try to diverisfy my holdings. I have 3 retirement accounts and one personal account which I play with but conservatively. The only stocks I have in my portfolio are C (Citibank), V (Visa), and IBM (international business machine). The rest are all mutual funds. Some of the holdings are (fecax, Figrx) these two are international funds through fidelity and fnarx which is a fund that does investments in exploration for energies and materials. I try to do dollar cost averaging by putting in like 150 to 200 dollars in these three funds montly to bring down the risk with them and buy at high and low prices. The rest of the funds are different types of mutual funds which are from medium size to large size companies in the US as well as a few bond funds such as PIMCO. This one has been a good conservative one for me. These funds I have through a 401k plan at work which I also contribute a few hundred to them monthly following the strategy for dollar cost averaging.

If you can provide some more information on your funds I would appreciate it(minimum investment, which institution you can obtain it from, etc). I am not sure of your age buy as you know age also plays a big role when it comes to the amount of risk a person can take. I know a little about Canadian markets and own one Canadian fund (FICDX) which I am down on about 10% from when I bought it but is showing great progress and will hold on to it. I like playing it safe by continue to invest in the funds I have and go for the long term plan. One has to be ready to take heat and drops if they also want to make money. At times it is hard and stressful but whats life without the added stress!!

I will add your recommendations to my watch list. I have done some day trading over the last few years. Gained a lot of money 3 years ago, lost a lot two years ago and gained some last year.

I've never been too impressed with mutual funds TBH Pooya jaan. I like to be able to sell something when I want (like stocks) and the management fees on mutual funds are often pretty high as well. That's why I love ETF's. IBM has definitely outperformed the S&P 500 in the last couple of years, but I think SPY is catching up. I know VISA is doing VERY well up here and I'll definitely add it to my watch list. As for Citi Bank, I think there may be another minor bank crisis looming down in the US because of exposure to overseas mortgages, but who knows. It already took a pretty bad beating.

Here's the fact sheets on all those ETF's I mentioned. I'm 38 BTW and after what happened in 2000, willing to take little risk! ;) I'm totally with you on this long term plan for stocks - like was say in Persian "aheste boro, peyvaste boro". I think that's the best investment strategy and people who have been successful in the long run and didn't risk the chance of losing their shirt in the process, all adopted something along those lines:

XDV:

http://ca.ishares.com/publish/content/related_documents/downloads/factsheet/XDV_EN.pdf

XIC:
http://ca.ishares.com/publish/content/related_documents/downloads/factsheet/XIC_EN.pdf

ZHY:
http://www.bmoetfs.com/ETFConsumer/controller/funddetails/glance?fundId=74666

VGK:
https://institutional.vanguard.com/iippdf/pdfs/FS963R.pdf

The only problem with investing in foreign markets of course is currency fluctuations and with CDN dollar flying right now and interest hikes predicted as early as a month and a half (hence further valuation of our dollar), I think I'm going to stay off foreign market purchases for a while.

Guys, I don't know if you're following the word financial news, but the situation in Europe seems to be pretty dire and that possible financial meltdown with global ramifications, seems to be much closer than I originally thought. Greece is practically bankrupt and the aid package (the biggest part of which is coming from Germany) is not receiving a warm welcome at home - neither is it being approved by the majority of Greeks. Portugal's debt rating has also been downgraded to junk status by the S&P and Spain has been downgraded a notch to AA. The situation seems to be spiralling out of control and social unrest in Greece is pretty much inevitable at this point (much worse than the last time around). Time to pull out and sit out for a while?!

I felt the same way last week. Total Crash and I lost a few thousand in just 2 days. The thing is that the US markets are back again but its Europe that is lacking the growth and stability as where the US market does seem to be bouncing back. I would not pull out from the market and my biggest regret is that I did not do dollar cost averaging through out all of last year when the markets crash. I am not sure if you are familiar with the practice but you basically keep putting money in on a monthly or weekly basis into your funds so you buy them at high and low prices to bring down the risk. Thsi would average out for you in the long term specially with a growing market.

Today the US markets are doing very well but I see the oil on the up with the spill that has been taking place. The data for consumer spending was up for a 6th month in a row now and a bulk of growth comes from that.

Yes, dollar cost averaging is great Pooya jaan, particularly if you don't want to be following the markets on a daily basis.

The situation seems to be contained for the moment, but Portugal and Spain have me really worried about a major meltdown. I sold the VGK (European) already - better safe than sorry. Since it was an American equity, all my gains were already offset by the rise of CAD against the US, so I didn't want to risk it at the moment. My portfolio's 100% Canadian now. I guess there's always short-selling if there is a market crash ;)

Anyone here trades the markets?

How are you holding out there Pooya jaan? It's a total meltdown out there. I dumped everything at around 11:00 a.m. this morning and things deteriorated by as much as 5% just since then, with a little recovery in the process at the moment. I think we have another major financial collapse coming - mush bigger than the last one!!!

There's an ongoing thread for this one Mr. M.
Commander, with your permission, I'm goin to merge these two - getting bored on vacation! ;)

Holy crap man, DOW was down almost 10% at some point today. Apparently it dropped so quickly, some people have claimed a technical glitch may have caused it!!!

Excerpt From AFP...

Within 15 minutes, the Dow had dipped down to levels not seen since the height of the US financial crisis, as investors dumped stock and rushed money into treasuries.

The stunning speed with which the market dropped prompted questions about whether a technical glitch was to blame.

"We don't know, right now we're looking into it," New York Stock Exchange spokesman Christian Braakman said. "It's all speculation."

Holy crap man, DOW was down almost 10% at some point today. Apparently it dropped so quickly, some people have claimed a technical glitch may have caused it!!!

Excerpt From AFP...

Within 15 minutes, the Dow had dipped down to levels not seen since the height of the US financial crisis, as investors dumped stock and rushed money into treasuries.

The stunning speed with which the market dropped prompted questions about whether a technical glitch was to blame.

"We don't know, right now we're looking into it," New York Stock Exchange spokesman Christian Braakman said. "It's all speculation."

Actually the broker I used could not fill me in. I finally managed to do fine with my shorts. It is all down to PG, MMM, with price problems. Trading halt of 90 secs dropped PG 20%. Electronic markets are fighting the paper markets like NYSE.

Gold is going up, so the usual benefactor (US Gov Bonds) has not done well. Paper is out. Good old Gold and Silver and Platinum is what is best. Otherwise short it.

How are you holding out there Pooya jaan? It's a total meltdown out there. I dumped everything at around 11:00 a.m. this morning and things deteriorated by as much as 5% just since then, with a little recovery in the process at the moment. I think we have another major financial collapse coming - mush bigger than the last one!!!

Been following it all day. Interesting to see what panic does to a market and sell offs started to take place. I am taking the hits and will sit to see what will happen in the next few days. And let me tell you the hits have been very heavy so far.

How did you do with your selloff if I may ask?

Actually the broker I used could not fill me in. I finally managed to do fine with my shorts. It is all down to PG, MMM, with price problems. Trading halt of 90 secs dropped PG 20%. Electronic markets are fighting the paper markets like NYSE.

Gold is going up, so the usual benefactor (US Gov Bonds) has not done well. Paper is out. Good old Gold and Silver and Platinum is what is best. Otherwise short it.

Mr. M, this all sounds like Aramaic to me - remember, you're dealing with novice here! :help: What's PG, MMM?

Is it all down to OPP, you know me... ;)


Been following it all day. Interesting to see what panic does to a market and sell offs started to take place. I am taking the hits and will sit to see what will happen in the next few days. And let me tell you the hits have been very heavy so far.

How did you do with your selloff if I may ask?

Well, there was some recovery toward the end of the day, but I don't think we're even close to having seen the end of this one. I'm concerened that we were just bailing out companies a year and half ago and now bailing out whole countries. There has been an unusual growth in the money supply since the late 90's which frankly I can not contribute to anything "natural" and all these bail-out's are simply hiding the fact that this is simply attributed to an "illusion" of wealth rather than actual growth in the money supply.

It's no different than personal finances on a much larger scale. You can own a big house, drive an amazing car and live a lavish lifestyle with money you borrow, but at the end of the day it's your net worth that really counts. Simply borrowing more money to support that lavish lifestyle for a little longer does not negate the fact that there's no equity there. At least this is the way I'm reading things and the reason I decided to pull out.

I guess, I should have done it a week ago, when I suspected poopoo will hit the fan, but better late than never. All in all, I ended up selling less than 0.1% below the starting value of my portfolio (since 2-1/2 months ago), which considering the circumstances may not be bad. The Bank of Canada is supposed to raise its rate in less than a month, so I'm going to wait and see by how much and how the GIC rates are going to adjust. I definitely can't handle another huge loss of hard earned money in the stock market, like the one I had several years ago. :(

Good,

I am glad you got out right in time not to lose any money Bi-Honar jaan. I am down about 5k or more this week alone. I specially took a hard hit with european mutual funds being down as much as 10-12% on some of them. I totally understand what you are saying. We work so hard and save little by little and put it in the market and then all of a sudden it takes a dive like this dropping so heavily in a matter of few days. I think there will be a return in the next few sessions if the Europeans bail out Greece but the trend will continue if there are others such as Spain and Porto. I read somewhere that Greeces infestructure is different than other countries and that analyst do not think the same thing will happen in those other countries. The issue that also makes this become worse is the human emotion that I was referring to. Markets are suppose to react to economic factors only. There are related factors such as Wars or natural disasters that are unseen which will drive markets down. The emotion of everyone just going on a sell off specially big hedge funds and investors contributes to the spiral heavily and it all of a sudden drives the markets down very heavily. I personally have hopes for the market long term and thats why I dont like pulling out. I just hope it all works out for the best.

What happened to you a few years ago that you lost money? Was this around 9/11 and the crash back then?

I had my losses back in the late 90's and then early 2000's as well with the bust in the technology stocks as well. When I think about this whole scenario its just like a huge rollercoaster going up and down. :looti:

Mr. M, this all sounds like Aramaic to me - remember, you're dealing with novice here! :help: What's PG, MMM?

Is it all down to OPP, you know me... ;)
(

PG is the Proctor and Gamble stock fiasco. Someone with a fat thumb apparently made this mess, by miss typing an order.

Good,

I am glad you got out right in time not to lose any money Bi-Honar jaan. I am down about 5k or more this week alone. I specially took a hard hit with european mutual funds being down as much as 10-12% on some of them. I totally understand what you are saying. We work so hard and save little by little and put it in the market and then all of a sudden it takes a dive like this dropping so heavily in a matter of few days. I think there will be a return in the next few sessions if the Europeans bail out Greece but the trend will continue if there are others such as Spain and Porto. I read somewhere that Greeces infestructure is different than other countries and that analyst do not think the same thing will happen in those other countries. The issue that also makes this become worse is the human emotion that I was referring to. Markets are suppose to react to economic factors only. There are related factors such as Wars or natural disasters that are unseen which will drive markets down. The emotion of everyone just going on a sell off specially big hedge funds and investors contributes to the spiral heavily and it all of a sudden drives the markets down very heavily. I personally have hopes for the market long term and thats why I dont like pulling out. I just hope it all works out for the best.

What happened to you a few years ago that you lost money? Was this around 9/11 and the crash back then?

I had my losses back in the late 90's and then early 2000's as well with the bust in the technology stocks as well. When I think about this whole scenario its just like a huge rollercoaster going up and down. :looti:

I hear you Pooya jaan... Not a lot of what's going on seems to be economic factors at the moment. I mean, this Greece situation was going on for months and looking pretty grim and just when they get the bail-out package and things start looking up, poopoo hits the fan!!! Seems counter-intuitive doesn't it? I think there are a lot of big players in the world money supply and the "plays" that they make to maximize their profits or better yet positions are far above and beyond ordinary people like you and I. In these times of turmoil, the best you can hope that you are on the right side of "their" gameplan.

I've decided to be a pooper in these situations and not play the game at all. I'm really sorry about the $5k, but in the bigger scheme of things that's not much. Are you sure you don't want to pull out now and rebuy later at a lower price? There's really no positive indicators at the moment - all doom and gloom. And with bad news more likely than good news, the markets more likely to go down and up. I think the situation in Greece will turn into a mini-revolution to be honest with you - today was unusually calm there. Anyway, I hope you give it some serious thought and either way make the right decision (i.e. your decision turns out to be the right one).

Yeah, I pretty much lost it all in the Y2K tech-bubble burst. I was 28 then and didn't really take things too seriously, but now I'd kick myself for years if I'd let something like that happen again. Of course, 5 years later the ex-wife ended up taking an even bigger chunk than I lost in the market - they'll get you one way or another I tell you! ;)

PG is the Proctor and Gamble stock fiasco. Someone with a fat thumb apparently made this mess, by miss typing an order.

Sorry Mr. M, I seem to be extra dizzy today. Yeah, been reading about that too and I tell you something looks really fishy about this whole situation and I mean real fishy. 3 extra 0's by mistake?! That's not just a "fat finger", that's a fat epileptic finger!!! ;)

I don't know, I'm really suspicious of what's going on out there, especially after Canada's governor or the central bank and finance minister came out a couple of weeks ago and warning of exactly what we're seeing right now but on a global scale!!!

The plot t'ickens maan!

Stock selloff may have been triggered by a trader error

by CNBC staff
Thursday, May 6, 2010

In one of the most dizzying half-hours in stock market history, the Dow plunged nearly 1,000 points before paring those losses—all apparently due to a trader error. According to multiple sources, a trader entered a "b" for billion instead of an "m" for million in a trade possibly involving Procter & Gamble, a component in the Dow. Sources tell CNBC the erroneous trade may have been made at Citigroup. "We, along with the rest of the financial industry, are investigating to find the source of today's market volatility," Citigroup said in a statement. "At this point we have no evidence that Citi was involved in any erroneous transaction."

According to a person familiar with the probe, one focus is on futures contracts tied to the Standard & Poor’s 500 stock index, known as E-mini S&P 500 futures, and in particular a two-minute window in which 16 billion of the futures were sold. Citigroup’s total E-mini volume for the entire day was only 9 billion, suggesting that the origin of the trades was elsewhere, according to someone close to Citigroup’s own probe of the situation. The E-minis trade on the CME. A CME spokesman said it found no problems with its systems. Other market sources said the erroneous trading involved the IWD exchange-traded fund or the S&P 500 Mini, according to Reuters.

A person close to BlackRock, which manages the IWD, said there was no unusual trading in the iShares product. Amid the sell-off, Procter & Gamble shares plummeted nearly 37 percent to $39.37 at 2:47 p.m. EDT, prompting the company to investigate whether any erroneous trades had occurred. The shares are listed on the New York Stock Exchange, but the significantly lower share price was recorded on a different electronic trading venue. "We don't know what caused it," said Procter & Gamble spokeswoman Jennifer Chelune. "We know that that was an electronic trade...and we're looking into it with Nasdaq and the other major electronic exchanges."

A different P&G spokesman had said earlier the company contacted the Securities and Exchange Commission, but Chelune said that he spoke in error. One NYSE employee leaving the Big Board's headquarters in lower Manhattan said the P&G share plunge lay at the center of whatever happened. "I'll give you a tip," the employee said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "P&G. Check out the low sale of the day. Something screwed up with the system. It traded down $30 at one point."

Nasdaq said it was working with other major markets to review the market activity that occurred between 2:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m., when the market plunge happened. The exchange later said it was investigating potentially erroneous transactions involving multiple securities executed between 2:40 and 3:00 p.m. Nasdaq also said participants should review their trading activity for potentially erroneous trades.

The massive selloff, which began shortly after 2 p.m. ET, amplified concerns about the spreading European debt crisis as the approval of austerity measures by the Greek Parliament sparked renewed rioting in Athens. "There is simply a growing recognition that Greece has got to default," banking analyst Dick Bove told CNBC.com. "The riots in the streets showed the decision to repay the debt was not going to be made by the people in Germany, France and Switzerland—it's going to be made by people in Greece and they're not going to repay it."

There also is a growing sense that any collapse of Greece could trigger a wave of defaults across Europe and even the world. "We've seen a crisis start in a country—Greece—become regional, impact the whole of the Euro zone and is on the verge of truly going global," El-Erian, CEO of the world's biggest bond fund, told CNBC shortly before the selloff began.

I never felt comfortable to set automatic triggers for my trades.

I don't buy this error story for one minute Mr. Ped. I think more than anything else, it was a small peak at where we're heading. At the rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised to see DOW hit the 8000 level in the next couple of months - that's if the problems are limited to what has been talked about so for (i.e. Greece bailout + possibly a Portugal bailout and donwgrading of Spain's rating). If any of these countries default, or the bailouts & credit problems start spreading to Ireland or Italy or now they're talking about the UK (particularly with the hung election), God help us all.

NBC had this trader on TV last night that has been a trader for like 35 years. He indicated he has never seen something like that and that execution of so many trades at the same time could of caused it. He was indicating that it takes humans so many seconds to do every transaction as where computer work in mili seconds. He was suggesting that the government has to put strict guidelines on trading and specially with computerized trading that causes such ups and downs to take place. I am a firm believer of government regulation when it comes to finances and trading but in this technology world that we live in and all the ups and down god knows what will happen.

How are you holding out there Pooya jaan. I completely chaged the make-up of my portfolio since the last time we talked and still taking a major beating ! Here's one of my new stocks in the news today and as related to Iran. S&P has their YF target for the stock at around $150 if I'm not mistaken, but they've taken a major beating in the past week or so - but then again, who hasn't! ;)

China to Move Ahead With Iran Energy Projects

By SHAI OSTER And SIMON HALL
Wall Street Journal

BEIJING—China's biggest oil company is pressing ahead with oil-and-gas projects in Iran valued at billions of dollars, its top executive said, highlighting Beijing's strong economic ties to Tehran even as China has signed onto a U.S.-led sanctions effort against Iran. The longstanding initiatives by China National Petroleum Corp., running in tandem with a $60 billion global investment plan over the next decade, wouldn't violate the United Nations Security Council draft resolution devised by the U.S. to punish Iran for its nuclear program. China, along with Russia, agreed to that draft after concessions from Washington that protect energy and financial tiesto Iran.

Still, the statement Thursday by Jiang Jiemin, president of state-owned China National Petroleum, just two days after the sanctions resolution was announced illustrates the continued complexity of Beijing's relationship with Iran, which is one of the biggest suppliers of crude oil for China's fast-growing economy. "We will implement our projects in Iran as usual, and we don't have plans to speed up," Mr. Jiang told a news conference on the sidelines of the annual general meeting of PetroChina Co., China National Petroleum's Hong Kong- and New York-listed subsidiary.

Russia, too, has substantial economic interests in Iran. Thursday, Sergei Kiriyenko, the head of the state nuclear company, reaffirmed that Russia plans to start operations by August at a nuclear plant it's building in Bushehr, in southern Iran, the Interfax news agency reported. Moscow denies that the plant has any link to Tehran's suspected military nuclear program, but Western nations have criticized Russian plans to go ahead with the plant.

China National Petroleum's $60 billion international push is aimed at increasing its overseas oil production to four million barrels a day, from 284,000 now. The effort is being spearheaded by PetroChina, which is the world's second-most-valuable oil company after Exxon Mobil Corp. China National Petroleum has been selling assets to PetroChina that aren't already part of the listed unit, but it keeps assets in politically sensitive countries like Iran and Sudan out of PetroChina to avoid backlash from international shareholders.

China National Petroleum is in various phases of developing three fields in Iran, including work on one of the world's biggest natural-gas fields, and on enhancing recovery from a small, older oil field. Mr. Jiang said he expected production from the older field to hit around 20,000 barrels a day later this year. "Regarding our projects that have been started, we will continue to do so," he said. Iran was China's third-biggest supplier of oil last year after Saudi Arabia and Angola. China's other big state-owned oil companies, China National Offshore Oil Co. and China National Petrochemical Corp., also have projects in Iran, as do oil companies from more than three dozen other countries including the U.K., France and Japan.

Faced at home with both declining oil production and rising demand, China has been importing more oil from countries like Iran. China believes stability in the Middle East is good for energy security, but it doesn't want sanctions to cut off its supply of Iranian crude, which could have forced it to buy more oil elsewhere with the possible effect of driving up global prices.

While China agreed to the new sanctions draft, it also applauded a fuel-exchange deal brokered by Brazil and Turkey earlier in the week meant to pre-empt the U.N. Security Council action. The new U.N. proposal relies heavily on discretionary enforcement of the measures against Iran, so China still has wiggle room over how strictly it wants to enforce the new proposals if they are adopted at the U.N.

Mr. Jiang, who is also chairman of PetroChina, said he hopes to see oil prices between $70 and $80 a barrel and was optimistic PetroChina's first half financial results would meet analysts' expectations.