Gentlemen,

I think we should all be proud of how far this site has come along in such a short period of time. It's almost hard to believe that 10 days ago there were no members, no forums and no site and only 3 days before that, not even an idea to have these forums! And what is even more remarkable, is that a site which went on line on April Fool's day, has actually made it this far! :Deviltype:

As I said in the very first welcome post, this is YOUR site. My intention was never to be the go-to-man or have this domain registered under my name - in fact, I haven't been very comfortable with that from the start. With that said, I forsee a very bright and successful future for this place, in lieu of the great bunch of people who have joined up and helped things along this far, and with the right organization. :wavetowel2:

But, as with any other type of great hang out, be it a bar, a restaurant, a coffee shop or any other place, the business aspect of things is just as important as "the regulars". With that introduction, I think it is time for these forums to make the transition into a business entity - albeit a non-profit one for the time being. As such, this is my proposal for this transition, for your review and comments:

* The most successful way IMHO to run this site would be as a Limited Partnership.

* The extent of the partnership (percent of shares) can easily and fairly be determined in two different ways :

1 - Through contributions to the site (i.e. time and effort put in).
2 - Through direct investment in the site.

Contributions: The percentage of shares allocated to this portion can be set by consensus or voting at a fair value, such as 33% or 50% (as examples) of the total. This portion of the shares can then be divided up between the contributors in a manner acceptable to everyone and based on the amount of time put in (again, as an example).

Direct Investment: IMHO Everyone should be given the opportunity to invest in the site equally. As such, there should be an investment limit, insuring that a student for example will have just as much of chance to share a part of this site as an executive. Some of you have already invested in this site through your donations and we can use the same mechanism from this point on.

The site as already running and all the mechanism for this tranformation is in place. A quick domain name change (which may very well occur as a result of a name change) and a new domain registered in the name of the limited partnership will faciliate a very smooth transition.

I have made sure from the start that the Paypal donations are in a separate account which now belongs to The Iranian Forums. The new partnership will also take control and ownesrhip of this domain and all its assets and will act as a new entity. I will continue my role, much like the rest of you as a partner and in any other capacity deemed fit or necessary by the collective/board.

The Details of this proposal

We can set the investment limit at $50 or $100. Everyone has an opportunity to invest up to that amount. Some of you have already done so by donating to this site. The investment will leave the new entity with a very nice balance sheet and capable of doing so much more than it is now.

We already have around $125 in donations. The Vbulletin lease and hosting have cost somewhere in the neighbourhood of $200 . So theoretically, with only $125 in additional donations, the new domain name can be registered and additional features can be added. I have absolutely no problem investing that amount if need be, but I am certain that by the time we're all said and done, we will have a huge cash balance of at last $1000 which we can reinvest in the site. Don't forget, that's only 13 people investing $100 each in a business and when was the last time any of us had an opportunity to invest in a business which could easily be worth $50,000 in 2 years with $100 investment?!!!

In any event, I don't want to be the one who comes up with these details, but I just wanted to wet your appetites and get you thinking about this forum and it's future success as a business, not just a hang-out, which IMHO is vital to its success. With that said, I will leave the discussion to the collective and hope that by establishing the right team and specific tasks and responsibilities, we can make this site even much more than it is now. All the discussions and decisions of the partners is already on record and can easily be cleaned up and summarized into an agreement. It's as easy as that.

What are your thoughts?

Gentlemen,

What are your thoughts?
I think we should all be proud of how far this site has come along in such a short period of time. It's almost hard to believe that 10 days ago there were no members, no forums and no site and only 3 days before that, not even an idea to have these forums! And what is even more remarkable, is that a site which went on line on April Fool's day, has actually made it this far! :Deviltype:
it's funny how some things work out. But thats the thing about todays world, everything is at everyones fingertips.
As I said in the very first welcome post, this is YOUR site. My intention was never to be the go-to-man or have this domain registered under my name - in fact, I haven't been very comfortable with that from the start. With that said, I forsee a very bright and successful future for this place, in lieu of the great bunch of people who have joined up and helped things along this far, and with the right organization. :wavetowel2
Hear, Hear!!!!!
But, as with any other type of great hang out, be it a bar, a restaurant, a coffee shop or any other place, the business aspect of things is just as important as "the regulars". With that introduction, I think it is time for these forums to make the transition into a business entity - albeit a non-profit one for the time being. As such, this is my proposal for this transition, for your review and comments:

* The most successful way IMHO to run this site would be as a Limited Partnership.

* The extent of the partnership (percent of shares) can easily and fairly be determined in two different ways :

1 - Through contributions to the site (i.e. time and effort put in).
2 - Through direct investment in the site.
I think that this is the perfect time to switch over to this style of running the site. Were still young, and most of the members here know eachother really well at the moment.
Contributions: The percentage of shares allocated to this portion can be set by consensus or voting at a fair value, such as 33% or 50% (as examples) of the total. This portion of the shares can then be divided up between the contributors in a manner acceptable to everyone and based on the amount of time put in (again, as an example).
I think that 1/3 of allocation going towards contributions sounds fair. A vote of the first 20 or so members who joined would be the best way to settle this.

It might be a bit difficult to guage "contributions levels" though, so we have to come up with a very definitive and systematic way of determining member contribution.
Direct Investment: IMHO Everyone should be given the opportunity to invest in the site equally. As such, there should be an investment limit, insuring that a student for example will have just as much of chance to share a part of this site as an executive. Some of you have already invested in this site through your donations and we can use the same mechanism from this point on.
Another good idea. This is a bit easier than contributions, because then "shares" can be determined directly on the % ($wise) contributed to the site.
The Details of this proposal

We can set the investment limit at $50 or $100. Everyone has an opportunity to invest up to that amount. Some of you have already done so by donating to this site. The investment will leave the new entity with a very nice balance sheet and capable of doing so much more than it is now.
instead of setting an investment limit, i think it would be better to set up a total % ownership limit. For example, have a rule stating that no one member can donate more than an x % of the previous month(s) total donation.
We already have around $125 in donations. The Vbulletin lease and hosting have cost somewhere in the neighbourhood of $200 . So theoretically, with only $125 in additional donations, the new domain name can be registered and additional features can be added. I have absolutely no problem investing that amount if need be, but I am certain that by the time we're all said and done, we will have a huge cash balance of at last $1000 which we can reinvest in the site. Don't forget, that's only 13 people investing $100 each in a business and when was the last time any of us had an opportunity to invest in a business which could easily be worth $50,000 in 2 years with $100 investment?!!!
behrou jaan is the $200 monthly?
as for me, i'm not going to be able to directly invest until at least a few months from now. i'm just too broke :hanged2:
In any event, I don't want to be the one who comes up with these details, but I just wanted to wet your appetites and get you thinking about this forum and it's future success as a business, not just a hang-out, which IMHO is vital to its success. With that said, I will leave the discussion to the collective and hope that by establishing the right team and specific tasks and responsibilities, we can make this site even much more than it is now. All the discussions and decisions of the partners is already on record and can easily be cleaned up and summarized into an agreement. It's as easy as that.
Amen :wavetowel2:

The $200 is actualy the annual expense!!! It's a great deal, eh? :)

Well, we can do an initital investmend drive and do another one in 6 months. I know Kasra's also a student and remembering from my old school days, I was always broke this time of the year too. Summers were usually a good time for spending ;)

I really like your suggestions of live-streaming and pump starting this site into the next level. That's why it's so much more important to set-up a nice organization from the start. That way everyone knows they're contributing to something that belongs to them, how valuable those contributions are, and even how much they're worth.

While I feel very reserved asking Toofan for example to help out with highlights or live streaming or ask someone else to update the calendar with Iranian Football stuff, under the current scenario, under a Limited Partnership, everyone who "contributes" to the site is receiving shares in the site and it's much easier for the board or team leaders (whichever the case may be) to allocate reponsibility and find people who are willing to do things.

Another area we could definitely improve in is membership. If each of us can bring 1 member onboard a week and each of those people can bring one person on board per week, we would essentially double our membership every week (at least at the beginning). This is another area where I think we will also work better as a team and the Partnership idea can be succeesful. It's easier to get people to come on board if the site is better organized, belongs to a group and especially if a person coming in can buy into the site (either through contributions or direct investment) and be part of that group.

I honestly hope that we receive more responses in this thread and are able to jump start things into the next level.

BTW, as far as conribution credits go, I suggest the following for an April 30th deadline as a possibility (i.e. this is an example of how we can determine things rather easily):

* Initial Site set-up: 3 people x 2 credit ea. (Kasra, PJ, BH) I'm okay with one credit on this, but definitely think Kasra and Pedram desrve more than 1 credit for their efforts and that's why I took myself out of the Admin duties credit.
* Moderation Duties: 4 people x 1 credit ea. (Artie, Behrooz, Ramin, Sly)
* Admin Duties: 2 people x 1 credit ea. (Kasra, PJ)
* Front Page Development: 1 credit (Sly) - work at initial stages.
* Calendar Updates: 1 person x 1 credit (TBD)
* Live streaming: Total of 3 credits. (TBD)
* Posting: Top 5 posters between now and the end of April, 1 credit ea. (TBD)
* Membership drive: Top 3 hosts (i.e. people with the most number of valid invites - i.e. new members 5 or more posts), between now and the end of April, 1 credit ea. (TBD)
Total Contribution credits: 25

Percentage of total ownership for ea. person: Credits/25 x CTTR (where CTTR is the contribution to total ratio at 33% or 50% or some other number). For example, assuming the CTTR is 50% someone setting up the live-streaming option will have 3 / 25 x 0.50 = 6% ownership for that task alone.

And direct investment (as of a deadline such as April 30th or other) would be, Amount of Investment (up to a limit) / Total donations x 0.50 (if the CTTR is 0.50). So, someone with a $50 investment out of a $500 total would have, 50 / 500 x 0.50 = 5.0% ownership

Adding the Contribution and Investment ratios, we can easily determine how much owensrhip ea. person has and the voting rights that go with it. that way, decisions can be made quickly and efficiently and I don't have to worry about whether I'm making the right decision, which members should I consult on ea. task, etc. and you guys don't have to worry about running things by me, or if we have a difference in opinion etc. The board can easily decide in a quick poll, what decisions we can or should take as a group with a 51% majority and no single person (i.e. me ;)) has to feel bad about making the wrong decision! Not to mention that major tasks can be assigned to teams, including team leaser who have authority to make decisions on the tasks assigned to them by the board without the need to consult anyone else or feeling bad about it. Just like any corporation or real business runs.

So we are waiting for Arab take-overs ? :D

This financial thing is way past me, so I'll guess you guys know what to do.

Ps.I have a Question, How can we offer % if we dont know the sites total worth, or Is that you can now buy in low and when the site gets bigger, you'll keep the % but its just worth more ?

I would love to invest and give money...only problem is I am currently not working/am a student and need every cent I got! :dancing1:

So we are waiting for Arab take-overs ? :D

This financial thing is way past me, so I'll guess you guys know what to do.

Ps.I have a Question, How can we offer % if we dont know the sites total worth, or Is that you can now buy in low and when the site gets bigger, you'll keep the % but its just worth more ?


LOL @ Arab take over. That's the beauty of the investment limit. Everyone gets an equal opportunity and no one gets to control the majority of shares, which is always a good thing as a few good minds are always better than one.

And on the second part, you hit the nail right on the head. Right now, the shares don't really have any value because we just sarted out and the site is not generating much traffic. So, let's say you have 6 shares out of 100 and we issue another 100 shares in 6 months for additional investment and tasks (i.e. contributions) and you have another 6 shares then, for a total of 12 out of 200 or 6%. Although that 6% is not worth much now and would hardly pay for the time you've put in, if the site is well managed, it could easily be worth over $50,000 in 2 years (estimated worth of ISP with all the probelms there and a poorly run business entity). So, in 2 years time, your 12 shares would be worth $3,000 which is not a bad return on the time and money invested.

Now, the $50,000 is just a number I'm throwing out, but the potential of the site is really endless. See, as much as I've always struggled with Operations stuff (i.e. what I'm trying to do now), my strength really lies in marketing and business efficiency (i.e. profitability). That's one of the things I'd like to do, is leave the operations stuff to someone who is good at that and then I can focus on the marketing side, which is what I'm good at. There are also people that are good in technical stuff (like yourself), customer relations, etc. If we put the right team in place, and I have no doubt that we can, I promise all of you guys that we will dwarf our accomplishments so far in the next year. All we have to do is work together and concentrate on each other's strengths.

We've only worked together for less than 2 weeks and with just a few people and a little bit of work, we actually have all the necessary tools in place to even take this very major next step (i.e. a mechanism for investment to be made, possibility to open a shareholder's forum where people can discuss ideas and vote). We have experimented with a radio channel which could have enormous commercial potential, the live-streaming is not a major issue, something else with great business postential (especially if we can add an SAP - secondary audio programming for a full stadium feel, where you can watch the game with other people and share your thoughts). etc., etc. And we haven't even begun talking about a site with nicely written articles and stuff.

I would love to invest and give money...only problem is I am currently not working/am a student and need every cent I got! :dancing1:

In lieu of what Ramin said as well Kazem jaan, I personally have no problem with us having another share offering in 3 or 6 months. I actually think it's a great idea, because I'm sure new tasks will come up requiring different contributions and contributors, not to mention investors, to step up to the plate .

behrou jaan i'll respond to you post soon. i saved all my schoolwork for the last couple of days of spring break. :D

i saved all my schoolwork for the last couple of days of spring break. :D

Looks like you're pulling a Beh bro - good for you! Spring Break is a time to smell the nice fresh Spring air and have fun, not to study. ;)

OK. I read throught your post Behrou jaan, and I'm impressed. It seems as if you have put alot of good though into this.

The April 30 deadline might be a bit too soon, but other then that, everthing else seems like a good idea, and i don't know if i would be able to add anything else of use.

I think that the best way to get this going would be to start a new thread with your post (post # 3) and set up a poll where all the members (or the first 10-15 that joined) can vote if they think this is a good idea or not. We can send out PM's to every member also to make sure that everyone participates.

I am abit confused on the numbers. Can someone answer the following questions?


1) What is the minimum amount ( $) that one can invest in the site ?
2) How percentage of site owner ship will be given to the person with the above investment ?
3) Will this number eve decrease, by creating more share in future or ... ?

OK. I read throught your post Behrou jaan, and I'm impressed. It seems as if you have put alot of good though into this.

The April 30 deadline might be a bit too soon, but other then that, everthing else seems like a good idea, and i don't know if i would be able to add anything else of use.

I think that the best way to get this going would be to start a new thread with your post (post # 3) and set up a poll where all the members (or the first 10-15 that joined) can vote if they think this is a good idea or not. We can send out PM's to every member also to make sure that everyone participates.

Actually Ramin jaan, I didn't put that much thought into it. I hope you're not pulling my leg ;)

The main thing is that everyone is treated fairly and receives credit for the work they do. Otherwise, no one is going to work on something volunteerly forever. I say that from personal experience as I directed the 1st live Iranian radio show in Canada back when I was 17 and this thing could have been a huge success, had it not been for my dad insisting that it has to be run as a non-profit and volunteer thing. Needless to say, the quality of the show went down gradually and it fell into disarray. I always say that if one's not moving forward in life, he/she is falling behind and that's true about this site as well.

You are right though and I do tend to push things a little hard sometimes. Might be for that cliche "shoot for the stars and you'll at least get to the moon", which is one of my favorite phrases. ;) The reason I wanted to set this up quickly is so that we can make decisions more efficiently. we obviously can't hold a vote on every little thing and wait until 50% of the members respond. With partners the number of votes would be less, there would be team leaders for different area, etc. and the decisions can be made more quickly. Although, again you're right and we don't have to move along so fast - I guess we've come pretty far pretty fast already. :wavetowel2:

I'm all for your idea of putting item #3 in a new thread in a poll, but I would have preferred if the details were hashed out with more input from others, before we went to a vote. What you think?


I am abit confused on the numbers. Can someone answer the following questions?


1) What is the minimum amount ( $) that one can invest in the site ?
2) How percentage of site owner ship will be given to the person with the above investment ?
3) Will this number eve decrease, by creating more share in future or ... ?

The minimum is only driven by the minimum donation amount at the moment (i.e. $10). So anyone who has donated even $10 would be a partner under this new scheme, rather than just a nice guy. :)

The percentage of ownership for each individual would be determined by the amount of investment (donation) divided by the total donations. Having said that and as you touched on with your third question percentages become a little complicated to deal with if there's more than one share offering.

So, let's say someone donated $25 and we have a total $250 in donations. that person would receive 10% of the shares dedicated to investment (not the total). So, for the sake of simplicity, let's say we issue a total of 1000 shares in the first offering and use a CTTR of 0.5 and this person has no other contributions. In that case the person with the $25 donation will have 125 shares out of a total of 1000 (number of shares x investment amount / total investment x CTTR). If we offer another 1000 later and this person does not investment any additional amounts or has any contributions, then he/she will have 125 shares out of 2000. Although the percentage is less in this case, the idea is that the site is actually worth more because of its reserves having increased by the 2nd offering and its quality having improved because of additional contributions.

Does that make a little more sense?

You are right though and I do tend to push things a little hard sometimes. ... Although, again you're right and we don't have to move along so fast - I guess we've come pretty far pretty fast already. :wavetowel2:
Does that make a little more sense?

Ok Behrou jan, I had a few days to digest your proposal. :dancing1:

I think it’s a great idea in principle and something that we should certainly look into to generate more traffic and eventually $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
We could potentially become another google and could afford to quit our day jobs but until then. :ahhhhhhh:

Kidding aside, we should revisit this idea in couple of months. Our first priority before doing initial public offering (IPO) should be to have a fully functional site/forum with significantly more traffic /members.

In the mean time we all should focus on adding more features and functions to the forum while brainstorming about both business and technical development part. :spinface:

I hope, I am not sounding negative, but IMHO, first things first. :chekerim:

Our first priority before doing initial public offering (IPO) should be to have a fully functional site/forum with significantly more traffic /members.

In the mean time we all should focus on adding more features and functions to the forum while brainstorming about both business and technical development part. :spinface:


My concern Hamid jaan is that people that are working on improving the forums are doing it volunteerly now. :pickingnose: It's kind of a catch 22 - or is it 20?! :spinface: Anyway, I just think it's much easier to assign tasks when people know they're putting their time in something that belongs to them (through contribution credits), or am I over-analyzing again?! I know I do that some times - a lot actually :wakeup:

We really need the calendar updated with TM stuff and the streaming (live or otherwise) would be great options to have, not to mention more mmebrs and it's easier to post a job with "virtual pay" :mjam: than it is without any pay! I don't know, I'm all burnt out. What should we do? Should I just pour myself a cranberry-rye and relax? :drinking53: Are we gonna make it? I just can't take failure too well
:hanged2:-

you tell me we're gonna be okay and I don't need to worry about this thing and spend so much time on it :console: and you'll definitely be in my good books, not to mention Sammy's! :bananairan: :Canada:

Behrou jan,
Thanks for the info and the proposal.
I will send you an e-mail when I'm a bit free.

Behrou jaan,
Here is a list of what i view to be the pros and cons of getting this thing started early:

Pros:
-We get going quickly
-The site starts improving faster
-The number of opinions to consider wont be too much to handle (as we don't have too many members yet)

Cons:
-We rush things and don't do them properly.
-We don't have a solid enough member base yet so the probability of success cannot be known yet.


Another thing Behrou jaan,
Although i definately like this idea that you have shared with all of us, i don't agree that this site wont succeed with just volunteer work.

I think that the other sites such as ISP and PFDC and others started off as all volunteer work, and then eventually transferred to more business like enterprises.

For where we are now, I also agree with Hamid in that we can wait longer to switch from a volunteer site to something else.

Behrou jan,
Thanks for the info and the proposal.
I will send you an e-mail when I'm a bit free.

Good to have you on board bro :)

Ramin jaan, if you guys are thinking we're doing okay and are happy with the progress of the site, then I'm totally cool with the idea of taking it a bit slower. I just want to make sure that everyone's having fun and we have all the things we need in our hang-out (including some sports action on TV!). I just don't want to be a bad host, that's all. ;)

But I think we're definitely falling behind in our membership drive. I really like to see at least 30 new membersa week. We all need to work on that. You guys are all the cybe buddies I have, so I've already invited everyone I knew (considering I can't go on ISP any more) and a few non-cyber buddies. I know Behrooz has been relentless in his efforts in that category as well, but the last I heard he was banned there too. :(

But I think we're definitely falling behind in our membership drive...

Yes, I would have thought we'll end up with more posters/members by now, but as we keep on adding more features and functions (like the music channells) membership drive will start picking up too.

I say, let's just have fun for now, when the time is ripe, with all the smart people around, :asskiss: we'll know what to do.

I am nowhere near qualified to advise you guys about these things. But ,I just wanted to let you guy know about some of the previous efforts.

There was a forum called iranfootballcenter 2-3 years ago. Many of its members were comprised of IK and PFDC members. They started extremely well, they had highlights and full games for download (I believe IPL, EPL, serie A etc), absolutely fantastic.

But I don't know why it disappeared, whether it was a volunteer effort, I don't know.

The only point I'm trying to make is learning from past experiences of other people. At the beginning, it's all good and dandy and everybody enthusiastic. But, you need to find a formula that keeps this alive and growing.

It is maybe good to study why a previous effort succeeded or not, etc, you get the idea. Just wanted to give my humble opinion as a friend.